7 Things I Learned About Laser Treatment for Baby Lip Tie and Tongue Tie

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kai 2

Yesterday was a big day. Actually, the last two days were big, because we drove to another town 4 hours away to address Kai’s lip tie and breastfeeding issues. The motivation for me to sit down and write this post was so that I could show my support for Dr. Grawey and her practice in St. Louis, Little Flower Family Medicine. The emerging reality is that writing this post is helping me process the experience. Hopefully, this post will help you make a decision if you find yourself checking out options for lip tie or tongue tie.

Andrea came to me some weeks ago with her idea that Kai had lip tie. She reported that he struggled opening his mouth all the way. We had noticed he aspirated milk once or twice a day. He seemed to gasp at times while breastfeeding. She wasn’t experiencing sore nipples like some tongue-tie baby mommas report. However, when examining his upper lip, it was evident to us that there was a band of skin that came down from his upper lip to his gums. It was so pronounced that this band of skin went over his gums.  A little research revealed that this kind of scenario can result in the gap between front two teeth and even smiling issues. What to do?

Andrea connected with other moms via the Tongue and Lip Tie Support Group on facebook and found Dr. Grawey through their preferred provider list. She was also recommended by Emma Kwasnica, who works tirelessly to support breastfeeding moms everywhere.

I had actually met Dr. Amy Grawey because Gena Kirby and I taught Rebozo and Dad Certified at her family practice office in St. Louis. “Hey, you look familiar,” Dr. Grawey said to me when we arrived for the lip tie visit.

Here are 7 Things I learned about breastfeeding, tongue tie, lip tie, and lasers:

  1. Due to Andrea’s oversupply, Kai was likely getting most of the milk he needed within the first 7 minutes of breastfeeding.
  2. Using the My Breast Friend pillow on top of a normal pillow on Andrea’s lap, positions baby so that he is even with the nipple. This keeps gravity from choking him with milk flow during oversupply times of the first few months of life.
  3. Oversupply is nature’s way of ensuring infants get as much milk as they need until they are strong enough to really get in there. At about 3 months, that over supply goes down.
  4. Lip tie and tongue tie have to do with a membrane of skin that didn’t dissolve in the womb as much as it could, which results in limited ability to get tongue out and lip up.
  5. The laser is a re-purposed dental laser. It’s about the size of a kid’s marker. It delivers white heat like when you used to burn ants with a magnifying glass in the sun.
  6. Laser is  better than scissors because it gets rid of tissue by burning it. Also, it doesn’t bleed, which makes for more accurate work.
  7. As for anesthetics and pain management, breastmilk is the best for babies. Drugs can be super dangerous for their tiny bodies. With proper amounts of love, breastmilk, and presence, going for the laser without anesthetic can be manageable.

I am enamored with our experience at Dr. Grawey’s office. As horrible as it was to hold my boy down while Amy burned the flesh under his lip, it was only half a minute long. Andrea came in to breast feed him immediately. I was able to shake off the experience. It all felt safe. Dr. Grawey’s baby was on the floor rolling around at her feet during the procedure. Before that he had been strapped to her back and before that she had been breastfeeding him. I’ll let that sink in for a moment…

Our doctor breastfed her baby during our consultation.

There was another doctor in the office, Dr. Kohler, who was also carrying her baby on her back. Andrea said to me that there are two aspects to this situation: one is that it is amazing that these two women bring their babies to work and normalize the family in the social context. The other is that it is sad that we think it’s amazing, because it should be normal.

If you are in Missouri and are looking for a doctor to laser the lip and tongue, then go to Dr. Grawey’s lip tie and tongue tie page to find out more information. You’ll see how she doesn’t use general anesthetic.

I have been concerned about how Kai would deal with the trauma of the laser treatment. Today, I held him for two hours while he slept, and I continue to keep him close while I type in order to remain connected. Over the last 24 hours since his procedure, he has cried in ways I haven’t seen him cry before, and we hold him and process with him the intensity of the laser experience. It’s like he is telling us with his yelps and tears what the experience was like for him. We say, “Yes, and then you felt burning on your lip. And we held you down. And you felt scared.” We give him the space to get it out. We don’t tell him, “Shhh.” We hold him. We say, “We love you.” As far as I can tell, he is whole and well.

Here’s what the visit looked like from my perspective.

Dr. Grawey

Yes, that is Dr. Grawey wearing her baby during the visit. Andrea is there in red. Jen York is there on left of the picture, and she helped out big time to hold Kai during the lasering.

My Brest Friend

My Brest Friend pillow was in the office, just like we have at home.


This is a dental laser and it fits in a case that looks like a sunglasses case.

Feeding Right After

Nothing like breastmilk for a wound. Hey, check me out in the reflection of the lamp. That’s where I stood to help hold Kai down. Also notice Dr. Grawey’s baby rolling on the ground. I think about how he’ll grow up having had this perspective of serving people.

Happy Mommas

Happy Mommas: Andrea Valley and Dr. Amy Grawey. You can see Dr. Kohler in the background there talking with Jen York. What a delightful office. Seriously delightful.


There’s the man of the hour. I am noticing that his upper lip is able to come out more now that the tough tissue holding it down is gone.

Here is Andrea and Kai back at home the day after. I show you this picture to demonstrate the extra pillow that gets Kai's head looking down into the boob. We are noticing he chokes much less.

Here is Andrea and Kai back at home the day after. I show you this picture to demonstrate the extra pillow that gets Kai’s head looking down into the boob. We are noticing he chokes much less.


I am happy to report that Kai cried only twice yesterday since the laser, and now he appears to have completely moved through the experience. Even when we do the lip stretches, he is unperturbed.

55 Responses to "7 Things I Learned About Laser Treatment for Baby Lip Tie and Tongue Tie"
  1. Thanks for this post Joe!

    We went through / are going through much of the same things with Sage. We had lip and tongue ties lasered and I too have an over-supply. The photos of the breastfeeding pillows set up is really helpful- i’ve not tried that before… will do it next feed!

    Big hugs, courage , and strength to you all as you do the stretches/massaging to keep the ties open. We had to re-open the tongue tie after one week as it sealed shut again… that was rough since we thought we were doing it firmly enough 🙁

    • Joe Valley says:

      You’re welcome, Chloe! Much love to your family. We think of you guys all the time. Thanks for the info on your experience with the stretches; we are staying on it because of your words. And I am happy the breast feeding set up picture is helpful. That’s great. It has really helped Andrea since Dr. Grawey set her up like that in the consultation.

  2. Claire says:

    His upper lip callus should heal soon. My daughter had them constantly. I was told by several breast feeding specialists that she didn’t have a tie. I went to Grawey when my daughter was 11 months old because I suspected she had an ULT. Grawey immediately noticed that my daughter also had a posterior tongue tie.

    Did Grawey mention if he had a TT? I’ve heard that TT often accompanies a ULT.

  3. Kim says:

    Great post! 🙂 Tongue tie and lip tie are so difficult. Our daughter had tongue tie that was affecting her feeding, and the doctors (Grawey and Kohler) treated it with the frenectomy when she was about two weeks old. Not sure what your post-procedure instructions are, but we had to hold her down every 4-5 hours for two weeks and stretch the wound for three seconds so it wouldn’t close (and it closed a little because I didn’t do it well enough). My poor baby. So hard, but five and a half months down the road, I can say it was so worth it–she has been nursing happily for six months, with no more pain for mom and no more frustration for her! These doctors are so wonderful. Thanks for sharing your experience! It’s great for the world to know more about this.

    • Joe Valley says:

      Thanks Kim! 🙂 Great to hear of your positive experience with Grawey and Kohler. Aren’t they the bee’s knees? We are doing the lip stretches and will keep on it. Dang, I am thinking about your baby and how hard it was. Happy it was worth it and is happy nursing for six months since.

  4. Jaqueline says:


  5. Aubry says:

    Thanks for sharing. We went to Dr Grawey a few days after you did and my little guy had both an ULT and TT revision. Both have healed wonderfully now. He hated those stretches but they seem to have worked. I will be sharing this.

  6. Jessica Weiss says:

    Just curious as to whether your nursing dyad’s pillow set up works better than laid back nursing?

  7. Sara Silver says:

    Thank you so much for your post. Me and my partner are worried about our baby, Luna Pearl’s lip tie. The oral surgeon we went to says hers is mild and he is almost on the fence about doing the snip. He does not provide laser revision. I can tell that it does affect her eating and she chokes often plus she swallows air while she feeds and then has painful gas. It has been a little better since I learned about lip tie and have been more careful about stopping her feeding when I hear her swallowing air and also making sure she keeps up after I “let down”. Luna ia 8 weeks old and I only want the best for her of course. I had a lip tie cut off when I was ten and it was a traumatizing experience. The only doctor that provides laser revision in California that I know of is in LA… We are in Northern Cali so I’m debating what exactly to do. I REALLY appreciate your article. It made me feel comforted almost like I was drinking breastmilk! i do feel that laser is the way to go… Now only to convince my partner that if we are going to do the procedure, laser is worth the travel. Thanks again! Love to you and your baby!

    • Joe Valley says:

      I am so glad that the article was like drinking breastmilk for you! Wait till I tell Andrea, she will be stoked to hear these words pack some milky punch. How did you go? Did you end up making your own journey for the laser? How is baby? I am sorry to hear that the snip was so traumatizing for you as a ten year old. Did you receive an anesthetic for the procedure? The snip sounds so intense. Dr. Grawey spoke about the procedure for older kids and using anesthetics and how it wasn’t so bad. My regards to sweet Lunia. I hope she is thriving and being amazing.

    • Nicole says:

      Dr. Yazdi in Castro Valley does laser treatment for tongue and lip ties.
      We have an appointment with him next week to help with our son’s lip tie.

  8. Risa Pantoja says:

    What an incredible office! My son had lip and tongue tie corrected via laser here in California, but the man who does it here is a pretty traditional pediatric dentist, and he does use general anesthetic. I am not a fan of putting anything but breastmilk in a baby’s body unless ABSOLUTELY necessary, but never even thought of doing it without anesthesia. Thanks for pointing out that that’s an option! So glad it was a positive experience (aside from the actual procedure, which is intense!). I totally did the Breast Friend + extra pillow too! We also had much success (and still do) nursing my son in side-lying position when experiencing oversupply and funky latch issues before the ties were corrected. Thanks for your wonderful site!

    • Joe Valley says:

      You are most welcome, Risa! So great to hear your words about your success with the breast friend and extra pillow and also with the side-lying position. Hope your little guy is doing well. Thanks for sharing the love 🙂

    • Annie says:

      Hi Risa,
      Thanks for sharing your experience and information. Can I have the name of the
      pediatric dentist in LA for my son’s tongue tie? I would really appreciate it.

  9. Liz says:

    We just had the same procedure, but both lip and posterior tongue tie done 2 days ago. In Reading many stories and tongue tie explanations I hadn’t found one similar to mine, until your blog. My son is 2 months old and (thankfully) growing like a weed thanks to my oversupply… However we are struggling with the same aspirating and gulping/choking. I am hopeful that we will see improvements (as my lactation consultant and midwife believed we would) soon and I wondered if you have an update on your experience. Did the procedure fix the latch to stop the gulping, etc? Thank you for sharing, it was comforting to come across a similar story such as ours to help reinforce our decision to have his ties corrected.

    • Joe Valley says:

      Hi Liz! Glad the article could help out. Yes, the procedure created relief for baby Kai because his latch got better. His skin under his lip did grow back quite a bit several weeks after being lasered, but it wasn’t enough to really be bad like it was before the procedure. That is some tenacious skin! Hope you guys are finding relief and the procedure worked out well for baby.

  10. Sheri says:

    Thanks for posting this. My 6 day old is having a lip and most likely posterior tongue revision done tomorrow at a dentist near us. Your post was just the kind of real life info I wanted. Our daughter isn’t able to nurse at all, so we have been pumping and using a syringe and now attempting a bottle to feed her. Hopefully the revision will go well and we can begin our nursing relationship.

  11. Amber says:

    Because of this blog post, we recently traveled to Dr. Grawey from Minneapolis to get our 4 month olds tongue and upper lip frenectomies – so THANK YOU!!
    Awesome doctor, assistant, and clinic. Totally worth the travel. We couldn’t find anyone closer who would do the procedure how we wanted. 🙂

  12. my grand daughter Tauryns lip ties 2 of them and tounge tied are growing back already she had it done 7 weeks ago she is 3 months, the ent here used a knife will using a lazor help to make it not come back or will this continue she does the exersices on her but for how long? he didnt think they wld grow back they did when and what age do they do laser she is still so small not growing much thk u

  13. she is alert and healthy otherwise just so small she has gained from 6 4 to 9 pds will be 3 months jan 7

  14. Samantha says:

    I see a previous poster mention not finding someone in Minneapolis that they liked. We are in Minneapolis area, and wondering what is different about the experience with the doctor you had? We’re just starting to look into evaluating whether our son needs a procedure.

    • Kari Rominski says:

      St. Croix Kidds in Hudson, WI is wonderful and uses laser for lip and tongue revision. Hudson is about 40 minutes from Minneapolis.

    • Joe Valley says:

      Someone in the Minneapolis area recently made a comment about finding someone.

    • amber says:

      HI, I think you are referring to my comment above about finding a doctor in the Minneapolis area… the clinic in Hudson would not allow me to be with my baby during the procedure, that is why we traveled. 🙂

      • Brad says:

        Hi everyone. I feel compelled to respond as to help anyone researching this procedure. My wife and I are from the Saint Paul/Minneapolis area. Yesterday, we took our three-week-old baby girl to St Croix Kidds in Hudson and were overall very happy and satisfied with the procedure. No, they do not let the parents be in the same room during. However, they were gone less than 4-5 minutes, and we actually found slight relief in not having to hold her down through the procedure. I understand that desire will be different for everyone, but after talking with Dr. Darcy there, I had full faith in her abilities to do the procedure without us watching. For anyone in the Twin Cities, this clinic should be on your list of considerations for sure! Her recovery is going well and she showed instant improvement on her ability to feed. Hope this helps anyone doing research!

  15. Amanda says:

    Thanks so much for the great info. I just discovered my son has an upper lip tie based on my own research. It now answers so many things regarding feeding with him. He has had a shallow latch (which caused major pain for me in the beginning) as well as always unlatching during feeding, gulping at times, and taking in too much air and therefore spitting up frequently. However, he’s gaining more than enough weight, so I feel like his dr would say to leave it alone until he gets older. He also almost always has his mouth open (and drooling) which I’m wondering if it could be from the tie restricting his lip. His 4 month appointment is next month. If his dr says to leave it alone, I’m wondering if I should take matters into my own hands – should I start with a pediatric dentist or an oral surgeon? Thanks so much for sharing your story!

    • Sheri says:

      Find an IBCLC. Some of them are trained to help identify ties. Doctors don’t always. The IBCLC can also help with the drooling and popping off issues.

  16. Aleita says:

    This is such great info! I had sever problems with my daughter and didn’t find out until it was too late that she has a lip and posterior tongue tie. I swore that if my next child had it I would get it corrected. Sure enough my one month old does have the same problem but not quite to the extent as my daughter. He was able to latch(although extremely painful for me) whereas my daughter could not at all. I had my sons corrected last week…. He still looks a bit sore in there and his suction is still not great. I saw lactation yesterday and I could tell she was not happy that I corrected it. His suction is not good… I can pull him right off my nipple and it doesn’t hurt. She made it sound like this was because I had the correction done but I told her this is why I called to have the correction done. Im hoping that when he is completely healed im his suction will get better. I am struggling keeping my supply up and he is gaining slowly. Any idea how long it takes for the lip and tongue to heal? Anybody else have a problem with poor suction? I had so many providers tell me that it wasn’t a problem or scoffed at me. I am so glad this info is getting out there to help other moms! I wish I had known all of this with my daughter. Thanks so much for getting this out there!

    • Sheri says:

      Have you had the palate checked? My daughter’s was so high she could not get a latch at all. Also, if you can, see an IBCLC not just a lactation consultant. They are more trained with ties and work hard to get baby to the breast. Mine worked hard to try to overcome the issues with my lo, but 8 months later I am exclusively pumping and using Dr Brown’s bottles. Not my ideal, but my baby still get my liquid gold, just not from the tap.

  17. Kristen says:

    I wanted to circle back and thank you for your post. This is what lead me to learn about and further research the laser treatment for lip and tongue ties. My 2 month old had her lip and posterior tongue ties lasered yesterday in Cleveland (we live in pittsburgh) at Brunswick kidds pediatric dentistry. They were absolutely wonderful. She (and I) are already doing much better. It was a very tough couple months and I am happy to say that I think we are out of the woods! Thanks for putting your experiences out there for me to find – I am not sure our path would have been the same without you.

    Kristen & Paige

    • Joe Valley says:

      Oh, this is the best news ever, Kristen. What a treat for me to hear a bit about your story, and I am so glad that you are finding yourselves out of the woods! So stressy to be managing all this stuff, isn’t it?! Ahhh. Whew. Lots of love to the fam. Thanks for sharing and circling back.

    • Brianne says:

      This message is for Kristen if it’s possible for her to get it! I am from the Pittsburgh area and need my son to have his lip and tongue tie done and am trying to find a trustworthy doctor or dentist around here to do it correctly! Just curious if you went to Cleveland because you couldn’t find someone in the area that you trusted???

  18. PD says:

    Thank you so much for this post as it helped me so much to understand the process of helping my little one with a lip and tongue tie. Would you happen to remember how long the healing process for his lip blisters took? Thank you so much!!

    • Joe Valley says:

      The lip blister is only something I am noticing in hindsight. Wasn’t aware of it at the time, because it was not a problem. If by lip blister you are referring to his puffy upper lip. That is a normal kind of scenario for breastfeeding babies (as far as my narrow research tells me). As far as his laser lip tie healing, that was substantially closed up within days. There was a white blood cell festival on it for 72 hours. It looked very tidy and contained. The body is amazing. There was no visible discomfort for Kai within 48 hours. I don’t even remember noticing the lip healing after that. It seemed seamless (both the experience and the actual wound).

  19. Jennie says:

    Hi! We had my almost 3 week old son’s posterior tongue tie snipped when he was 3 days old. Breastfeeding continued to be painful and I wasn’t sure why. After reading this article, I’m thinking my son may have an upper lip tie as well. I called the oral surgeon who performed the posterior tongue tie and he does not perform lip tie surgery. I have an appointment to have his posterior tongue tie reevaluated to see if it needs a revision. The woman I spoke with on the phone said that the doctor would explain why he advises against the lip tie procedure. I’m just looking for a vote of confidence or advice. I also made an appointment with a dentist who can perform the laser lip tie release. Did your son do well with breastfeeding in the months following the procedure? Has it affected him in any other way? I’m just trying to figure out why this doctor that I know and trust would advise against it when he’s very pro-breastfeeding. Thanks so much for any insight you can give me.

    • Joe Valley says:

      Kai did GREAT with breastfeeding IMMEDIATELY following the laser lip procedure. And for months on. The lip tie grew back over time, yet did not have detrimental effects. Not sure why the doctor you are talking about would advise against the laser lip tie release. We had a good experience with ours for Kai.

  20. Amanda Sharp says:

    Have a question has your child had a slowness in talking our daughter is 15 months. She seems to say a few words but not well. She was revisioned at 2 months had to have Eci and body work and therapies to help even chiropractic care to get her here. But after two months can the tongue tie back. She had both done lip is great but doesn’t lick stuff, hates her mouth being messed with. And finally started nursing at 4 months. I thinks it’s great you are as involved as you are. My husband has autism so I’m the one to find out everything to help our little family. On a mission to heal his Autism, anti social kind of behaviors and bad moods. But any way your response would be much appreciated. Thanks do much.

    • Joe Valley says:

      Great question, Amanda. Kai definitely has had some slowness with speech, which is a result of having a triple stamp of the 21st chromosome. T-21 they call it, which is Down’s Syndrome. Our lip tie grew back quite a bit, actually. However, it hasn’t been a problem. The immediate effects of latch improvement solved nearly all of Kai’s digestive problems. He was getting too much air in there and didn’t know how to burp. Poor guy. Sounds like you are very proactive in your family’s health. Hats of to you and all the amazing mothers in the world.

  21. Laura says:

    Thank you for photographing the laser! I am coming up on two weeks of lost sleep following my son’s tongue tie diagnosis. He is four and has been in speech for 1.5 years and finally, a newer therapist noticed that he had limited tongue mobility. It explains a lot about the rest of him – but was a surprise for all of us to be facing this procedure now. I am comforted by your photos and will maybe sleep… Eventually 🙂

    • Joe Valley says:

      Ohhhhh, sleep. What is that 😉 Sounds like you’re making some helpful discoveries, Laura! Here’s to good procedures and lots of sleep.

  22. Brad Strong says:

    Very Fascinating to read about this experience from a Papa’s perspective. I provide Tongue/Lip tie surgery in my office too. It is amazing to see the difference it can make for everyone involved. Sometimes the fathers just stand there feeling so helpless. Often all they can do is hold their wives hand, and hold the baby while mom gets a small break from the action. Their support for a mother at the end of her rope is so important. Great insight here. Thanks.

    • Joe Valley says:

      Hi Brad! Great to hear from the provider perspective. Looks like you’re in Spanish Fork, Utah and are available to do the laser lip/tongue procedure. Very cool.

  23. Anne says:

    I know this is an old post, but my infant son is getting the laser surgerg done tomorrow for lip tie. I am wondering if your baby got Tylenol? I am nervous about giving my 2 week old tylenol…

    • Joe Valley says:

      Hi Anne. We did not give our baby Tylenol. The breast milk was our drug of choice. Kai cried through the procedure, which was fairly intense. Whew. Wow. Intense. There was crying on the 4 hour drive back home. We made many stops for breastfeeding, which really helped. Kai cried a little bit the next day. Then that was it. There were no noticeable traumas for him. No medicine.

  24. HGMA says:

    Very helpful information. We are in New York City. We were told that our 12 day old has both lip and tongue tie. Who could you recommend to do the laser procedure? Thank you for your time and advice

  25. Jennifer says:

    Hello! I know this post is old but I just wanted to say I loved reading about another experience with laser lip tie release! We just drove two hours to have our 1-year old son’s lip tie lasered. The tie never caused breastfeeding issues, but had started to cause front tooth decay no matter how often we cleaned his teeth. We found a fantastic dentist who actually let me hold our son on my chest (I laid in dentist chair and held son on me so he was facing the ceiling, his arms wrapped in a blanket so that I “bear hugged” him, hubby held legs) while he performed the procedure. It was over in ten seconds and I nursed him immediately. No anasthetic.

    It’s been two weeks since the procedure, the white diamond on the wound site is gone, but in spite of our doing lip stretches diligently every 3-4 hours around the clock, it seems to be growing back. I’m really hoping it doesn’t come back all the way, because his enamel was actually chipping off his teeth due to how fast the decay would set in.

    Has your son’s tie grown back? I’m hoping we don’t have to do it again. 🙁

    • Joe Valley says:

      Hi Jennifer! I’m so glad you loved reading about our experience with laser lip tie! Sounds like you had a positive experience with your son. We did stretches a little bit, yet the lip tie did grew back. Here’s the thing though: it didn’t matter. By the time it grew back, Kai had already developed a super good latch and grown bigger. That being said, we were solving a latch issue and not the tooth decay issue like you are doing. Funny you should bring it up, though, because we just had to take Kai to the hospital dentist so they could put him under to fix his decayed molars. We think it was reflux that caused the teeth in the back of his mouth to decay. Bummer. The procedure was perfect and he recovered perfectly. Scary, though.

      I hope you don’t have to laser your son’s lip tie again and that everything works out.


      • Jennifer says:

        Hi Joe, thanks for your reply! We’re actually taking him back day after tomorrow for a follow up, and I’m feeling very frustrated/nervous that he might need to have it released again. No matter how diligent we were about the stretches, it’s definitely grown back. 🙁 I’m not sure what we’re going going to do. I’ve read that some kids ties grow back several times over, and I mean, where does it stop? The getting the procedures done over and over again? I don’t want to put my baby through that.

        But the good news is that even though it’s grown back, it’s not as tight/restrictive as it was pre-surgery. I’ve no idea if it will continue to get thicker though or if it will stay like it is.

        Anyway I’m just venting now! 🙂 I’m glad your son’s molar procedure went well. Thanks again for your post.

  26. EdnaV says:

    Hello, thank you for all this info about lip and tongue ties. My almost three month old son has both LT and TT 🙁
    He also has reflux and spits up constantly specially breast milk. His pediatrician strongly believes the reflux may be caused by the tongue tie. Did your son had reflux as well? Did it get better after the tongue release?

    • Joe Valley says:

      Hi Edna. Sounds like you are looking at lasering a LT and TT. Our son had stomach issues that were relieved with the lip release, which allowed him to get a proper latch and avoid swallowing so much air. Your pediatrician’s idea may be valid.

      Reflux has been an issue over time for Kai, which is independent from the lip tie. Hard to say, really, the reason. Kai has T21, which may be a factor.

      – Joe

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